I have had ongoing issues with a new DS10cTEC when used with SharpCap. I prefer to use this program over the MallinCamSky program. What happens is it will, when running, show the exposure time and then keep counting for ~1.5 secs longer before starting over. For example if set to 3s exp it will count to, between, 4.4 and 4.8 seconds before it then starts over. I have a loaner DS16c camera which has never hung up using SC - and it shows the exposure bar immediately snap back when it hits 3s (as far as I can tell - mS at best). Everything the same - just different camera.
Also - in trying to suss this out I ran the DS10 w/o the cooler plugged in and cooling off. It ran for an hour (often fails w/i 15 minutes)... I then closed the cameara, plugged in the cooling power cable, connected the camera, turned cooling on. It showed 96% cooling and 27.6 actual temp - then changed to a lower value (power, didn't see what it was) and 22.6deg c and it erred out. I sent the error report at that time (about an hour ago ~1700UTC).
The DS10cTEC runs for hours using MallinCamSky. What can I do to help get this resolved as, as noted, I highly prefer to use SharpCap as my plans extend on to adding support for remote control imaging through SharpCap for the ServoCAT dob system.
Gary Myers, StellarCAT
MallinCam DS10cTEC vs. DS16c
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Re: MallinCam DS10cTEC vs. DS16c
Hi Gary,
I can see the various bug reports that you have sent in the last few days. In most cases the error from the SDK seems to be 'A device attached to the system is not functioning. ', which is usually related to a failure to communicate properly with the camera.
Since the camera works OK in ToupSky, it's unlikely to be a USB cabling issue (but it's always worth going back to a simple, single, relatively short USB cable for troubleshooting anyway). One thing that may be different by default between ToupSky and SharpCap is the default value of the 'USB Speed' camera setting. Lower speed settings can give improved stability at the expense of slower frame rates/longer image download times. It's certainly worth setting that back to zero (it was recorded as 2 in your bug reports) to see if that helps.
I can also see that I last updated the Mallincam SDK in SharpCap on the 26th July, so it may be worth going back to a SharpCap version before that date (available from our downloads page), in case the latest update sadly introduced an issue.
Unfortunately I don't have any Mallincam cameras to test with, so I can't confirm this issue myself. I do know that some people are using these models successfully, which does seem to suggest the issue isn't happening to everyone, but that is, of course, not much help when it is happening to you
cheers,
Robin
I can see the various bug reports that you have sent in the last few days. In most cases the error from the SDK seems to be 'A device attached to the system is not functioning. ', which is usually related to a failure to communicate properly with the camera.
Since the camera works OK in ToupSky, it's unlikely to be a USB cabling issue (but it's always worth going back to a simple, single, relatively short USB cable for troubleshooting anyway). One thing that may be different by default between ToupSky and SharpCap is the default value of the 'USB Speed' camera setting. Lower speed settings can give improved stability at the expense of slower frame rates/longer image download times. It's certainly worth setting that back to zero (it was recorded as 2 in your bug reports) to see if that helps.
I can also see that I last updated the Mallincam SDK in SharpCap on the 26th July, so it may be worth going back to a SharpCap version before that date (available from our downloads page), in case the latest update sadly introduced an issue.
Unfortunately I don't have any Mallincam cameras to test with, so I can't confirm this issue myself. I do know that some people are using these models successfully, which does seem to suggest the issue isn't happening to everyone, but that is, of course, not much help when it is happening to you
cheers,
Robin
Re: MallinCam DS10cTEC vs. DS16c
Robin,
Thank you for the considered reply. If I may: the action where on the one camera, the one that does work a DS16c (also MallinCam) the exposure bar counts up to the total and SNAPS back ... so set to 3 secs the instant it hits 3 it snaps back and repeats. This DS10c doesn't do that - it continues to count up to between 4.4 and 4.8 seconds. Is this "normal" or is it a (potential) clue to the issue as well? [note: whenever it does fail this count is going up and up and up - never stopping.]
I have now tried 4 different computers - lots of different USB ports. I'm 99.8% convinced this is not a USB port nor a computer issue. I don't know if the DS16 draws the same USB power as the DS10 so I can't be 100% sure but the DS10 does work fine using the same USB port (and fastest USB speed setting) when using MallinCamSky software. Again, suggesting strongly this is either a) a bug in SharpCap in reading this model camera or b) something wrong with this particular camera. I suspect the latter as the former would, I'd think and as you've said, have been found out by now through others (although the use of MallinCamSky software is strongly suggested by the manufacturer).
I'm at a loss as to what to do next. The last thing I have is, I'm told by several on the MallinCam group, that you have to use a powered hub or these things will happen. That seems - an odd requirement since it is sold as USB3 compatible. However I did finally break down and order a Pegasus UPBox to use with the camera. If that works, although it puts it to bed, it doesn't fully address this in my mind. Being an engineer (ServoCAT product and industrial for 45+ years) I want to know WHY and the HOW to fix it. If it doesn't work then I have to assume its the camera itself. It is brand new for all practical purposes and has always done this.
Thanks again. Hopefully you can comment on the exposure timer observation above. Gary Myers, StellarCAT
Thank you for the considered reply. If I may: the action where on the one camera, the one that does work a DS16c (also MallinCam) the exposure bar counts up to the total and SNAPS back ... so set to 3 secs the instant it hits 3 it snaps back and repeats. This DS10c doesn't do that - it continues to count up to between 4.4 and 4.8 seconds. Is this "normal" or is it a (potential) clue to the issue as well? [note: whenever it does fail this count is going up and up and up - never stopping.]
I have now tried 4 different computers - lots of different USB ports. I'm 99.8% convinced this is not a USB port nor a computer issue. I don't know if the DS16 draws the same USB power as the DS10 so I can't be 100% sure but the DS10 does work fine using the same USB port (and fastest USB speed setting) when using MallinCamSky software. Again, suggesting strongly this is either a) a bug in SharpCap in reading this model camera or b) something wrong with this particular camera. I suspect the latter as the former would, I'd think and as you've said, have been found out by now through others (although the use of MallinCamSky software is strongly suggested by the manufacturer).
I'm at a loss as to what to do next. The last thing I have is, I'm told by several on the MallinCam group, that you have to use a powered hub or these things will happen. That seems - an odd requirement since it is sold as USB3 compatible. However I did finally break down and order a Pegasus UPBox to use with the camera. If that works, although it puts it to bed, it doesn't fully address this in my mind. Being an engineer (ServoCAT product and industrial for 45+ years) I want to know WHY and the HOW to fix it. If it doesn't work then I have to assume its the camera itself. It is brand new for all practical purposes and has always done this.
Thanks again. Hopefully you can comment on the exposure timer observation above. Gary Myers, StellarCAT
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Re: MallinCam DS10cTEC vs. DS16c
Hi Gary,
OK, so there is no real problem with the frame time going a little over and the 'to go' time going negative as long as the images are coming through at the end of that extra time. The extra time beyond the specified exposure represents the time taken to download the image from the camera to the PC. This time is longer when low USB speeds are set and also longer if the camera is connected via USB2. It can also depend on the exposure length, as the camera internal clock runs slower to allow for longer exposures.
The closest camera I have to the DS10C is the Altair 294M ProTEC camera, which has the mono equivalent version of the 294 sensor (actually the IMX492), but like the Mallincam is manufactured by ToupTek. Testing that, I see an over-run of about 1.5s, but that only seems to kick in when the exposure is above 4s or so.
SharpCap puts these cameras into 'trigger' mode for exposures above 2s - that means that instead of the camera running continuously capturing frames, SharpCap has to request each frame individually (which it will do after the last frame finishes). This helps make things like responding promptly to a change in exposure work well (otherwise the camera might want to finish a 60s frame in progress before changing the exposure to 1s if you have made an adjustment). It could be that MallinCamSky runs the camera in video mode at longer exposures unless you specifically change to trigger mode - in video mode, you would not see the delay at the end of the frame, so that could be part of the cause.
Anyway, if you are getting frames with no other errors, the short delay is harmless and relatively normal - although as you have noted it's not consistent between cameras. The 10C uses the Sony IMX294 sensor, while the 16C is a Panasonic sensor if I remember rightly, so it's no surprise that they behave slightly differently.
Having a powered USB hub is definitely not necessary for these camera - they will work nicely without a USB hub with a simple, single, USB cable direct from the computer. However an *unpowered* USB hub may not work. Additionally, USB extension cables will typically fail for USB2 if the total length is much over 4.5m and for USB 3 somewhere in the 3 to 4m total length range.
Some of the larger cameras do require the 12V supply to work at all, other large ones may partly work without the 12V power and then give odd results in certain circumstances without 12V, but work perfectly with 12V. So, I don't think the Pegasus Ultimate box will help with this issue, but you will find it an incredibly useful piece of equipment I think (I love mine!)
clear skies!
Robin
OK, so there is no real problem with the frame time going a little over and the 'to go' time going negative as long as the images are coming through at the end of that extra time. The extra time beyond the specified exposure represents the time taken to download the image from the camera to the PC. This time is longer when low USB speeds are set and also longer if the camera is connected via USB2. It can also depend on the exposure length, as the camera internal clock runs slower to allow for longer exposures.
The closest camera I have to the DS10C is the Altair 294M ProTEC camera, which has the mono equivalent version of the 294 sensor (actually the IMX492), but like the Mallincam is manufactured by ToupTek. Testing that, I see an over-run of about 1.5s, but that only seems to kick in when the exposure is above 4s or so.
SharpCap puts these cameras into 'trigger' mode for exposures above 2s - that means that instead of the camera running continuously capturing frames, SharpCap has to request each frame individually (which it will do after the last frame finishes). This helps make things like responding promptly to a change in exposure work well (otherwise the camera might want to finish a 60s frame in progress before changing the exposure to 1s if you have made an adjustment). It could be that MallinCamSky runs the camera in video mode at longer exposures unless you specifically change to trigger mode - in video mode, you would not see the delay at the end of the frame, so that could be part of the cause.
Anyway, if you are getting frames with no other errors, the short delay is harmless and relatively normal - although as you have noted it's not consistent between cameras. The 10C uses the Sony IMX294 sensor, while the 16C is a Panasonic sensor if I remember rightly, so it's no surprise that they behave slightly differently.
Having a powered USB hub is definitely not necessary for these camera - they will work nicely without a USB hub with a simple, single, USB cable direct from the computer. However an *unpowered* USB hub may not work. Additionally, USB extension cables will typically fail for USB2 if the total length is much over 4.5m and for USB 3 somewhere in the 3 to 4m total length range.
Some of the larger cameras do require the 12V supply to work at all, other large ones may partly work without the 12V power and then give odd results in certain circumstances without 12V, but work perfectly with 12V. So, I don't think the Pegasus Ultimate box will help with this issue, but you will find it an incredibly useful piece of equipment I think (I love mine!)
clear skies!
Robin