ASIAM5 Polar Align

[jerry1]

Hi Robin,

I don’t have an ASCOM driver app or its setup window, per se. All I have is an ASCOM platform app and an ASCOM Hub app, and neither provide my location coordinates or allow me to set them. There are also some simulator apps, but those are something else. Be that as it may, I found an advanced setup screen for the ASI Mount app which interfaces with ASCOM and it lists my location as 31.27N, 120.74W. That happens to be about 70 km NW of Shanghai. Of course, that would have shown the celestial targets I saw here as below the horizon there last evening and likely explains the problem that I had and confirms your suspicion that SharpCap is getting the wrong location.

In that advanced screen, I was able to change the lat and long values, but could not save them, and they returned to their original values when I moved the cursor. So my problem is that I can’t manually change my location setting there nor in SharpCap and begs the question as to why that location is found even though both ASCOM and SharpCap have my correct time zone, date, and time-of-day. I would have thought the latter three data would at least provide the proper longitude.

Is there some way I can force SharpCap to either take my lat and long data or extract it properly from my time zone, date, and time fields? Or, any other suggestions?
Thanks,

Jerry

[admin]

Hi Jerry,

I think there has to be a way to save those settings for latitude/longitude somehow. In theory an application can set them via the ASCOM driver as well as read them, but SharpCap doesn't have that functionality (maybe some other program like NINA might allow that, and once set then SharpCap will get the right values).

Was the screen you found to set them on like the one shown here ? https://bbs.astronomy-imaging-camera.co ... m-driver/7

I wonder if the 'Sync from PC to mount' button does the trick?

Another thought is how do you control the AM5 if you *do not* have a PC? Is it an app or a handset? Whatever it is, that must have a way of setting the lat/long or it would never be able to find the right targets.

cheers,

Robin

[jerry1]

Good Morning Robin,

I agree; there has to be a way to set and save them. And yes, that is precisely the two screens I was describing: the ASIMount ASCOM Server screen and the one displayed when you tick the “Advanced” box, which even shows the latitude and longitude boxes in white, so alternate values can be entered by the user. In fact, I believe that the lat value returned to the original +31 degree value when I started entering the long value. However, I found no way to save the settings – no “Save” button.

Why did you circle the “Guiding Rate” in red? I don’t understand the connection.

I tried clicking the “Sync from PC to mount” many times and no saving or other changes were evident. In searching for that button, this is the only result I found that seems similar to my problem.

https://bbs.astronomy-imaging-camera.co ... m-software

This guy also has the AM5 mount, and for him, the time and location appear to change when he clicks the “Sync…” button, but nothing happens when I click it; the time and date are already correct and don’t change and the incorrect lat/long stay the same. A tech from ZWO also responds in the thread, but I do not see any resolution. The tech ascribes the problem to CdC and not to ASCOM. I do not know CdC, are you familiar with that product, app, driver, or whatever it is?

I have three options for controlling the AM5:

1. The hand control;
2. The ASI Mount screen; and
3. The GoTo controls in SharpCap.

All of them will allow me to move the mount in R/A or Dec. The only time I need to do that is during the 90 degree R/A rotation for polar alignment. Otherwise, I intend to use the object database to select my desired target for imaging and I want SharpCap to point the scope to it.

As for a way to set the lat/long, I see no way for the hand control to do that, we’re discussing the inability to save those coordinates using the ASI Mount screen, so that leaves SharpCap and you’ve told me it won’t do that. So, I’m in a bit of a quandry.

I really wish you had or had access to an AM 5 or AM3 to do some testing, but I know they’re not inexpensive. I will say, the AM5 is incredibly light in weight, quiet in operation, well built, has no lash issues being a harmonic mount, and is very well built (I wish I’d get a commission for this sales effort ).

Is there any other info I can provide that would help?

Thanks,

Jerry

[admin]

Hi Jerry,

that wasn't my image with the guiding rate circled - just someone else's post showing the config screen that I found with a quick web search.

In the past I've never needed to have a way to allow the lat/long to be set in SharpCap as *every* mount seems to have a way to do it. For some reason it seems to be not possible/not working with your AM5. Something must be odd because without being able to set that then the mount is basically not properly usable, so it *must* work for most people... Not that that helps much

Try connecting to the mount ASCOM driver using NINA - when you do that it gives you the option of either using the mount lat/long in NINA or sending NINA lat/long to the mount. Maybe that will do the trick, and it should only need to be done once. Set your own lat/long in NINA before connecting, choose 'NINA to Telescope' and hope it gets saved!

Screenshot 2024-01-04 131211.png (12.21 KiB) Viewed 9222 times

The only other thing is that from the way the AM5 screens are worded, I think the lat/long are stored in the mount itself, not in the software config on the PC. That will mean the mount needs to be powered on and connected to the PC for this to work.

If none of this helps then we need either someone on here with an AM5 who has set the lat/long to explaint he procedure or maybe the ZWO forums would be a good place to ask.

cheers,

Robin

[jerry1]

Hi Robin,

I was able to successfully correct the lat/long coordinates with your suggestion of using N.I.N.A. to transport them to the mount. I then confirmed them in ASI Mount. The hardest part was spending 15 minutes or so to install and learn enough about N.I.N.A. to pull it off. N.I.N.A. is quite intuitive; I may explore it further – thanks for your suggestion!

I then tried everything out this evening and was able to perform a proper polar alignment, but SharpCap is still unable to point the scope at the selected target from the database. At this point, I’m sure the problem is mine. Here is a detailed summary of what I’m doing, what is occurring, and some questions:

I start the alignment from the Home position of the mount. The elevation of the AM5 is adjusted to my latitude and I rotate the entire mount with scope in the direction of Polaris. I turn on the scope mounted laser which is aligned with the center axis of the telescope and assure it point directly at Polaris. I start SharpCap’s Polar Alignment routine and it starts counting stars and plate solving. After about 10 seconds, it instructs me to click “Next” and rotate the scope 90 degrees. I do that with the hand control or the ASI mount screen and then receive the Left/Right and Up/Down errors. I alternate between the two and within about 4 – 6 cycles of tweaking, the error is usually less than 30 seconds for both axes with SharpCap indicating the alignment is “Good”.

At this point, I feel there should be a “Save”, ‘Finish”, or some such button to end the process and return the scope to the Home position which should now also be in proper polar alignment, but there is no such button, so I click on the alignment screen’s “X” button to end the alignment process and close its screen.

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If that is not the proper way to finish the alignment process, how should it be done? I find no button for that purpose and the screen’s instructions do not say anything about how alignment is completed and terminated.
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I then click on the “Go Home” button on the ASI Mount screen and the scope goes to the Home position.

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Is that correct to do? If I don’t do that, the scope is on its side with an R/A of 90 or so degrees to the east or west depending on which way I had rotated it. Should I be doing something else?
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Next, I select an object from the database, click OK, and close that window. I finally click the Start button between the Emergency Stop and Close buttons and the scope begins to move and finally stops . But it isn’t pointing at the selected target.

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Why is it not?
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In frustration, I looked around, saw Jupiter in the high southern sky and decided to try having SharpCap point the scope there. I brought up the full catalog, unchecked the “Select All” box and clicked just the Solar System box, but Jupiter was not listed, yet I can look up and see it.

I’m sure the problem is with me because this is all likely working for other SharpCap users or I’d see many posts indicating they’re having similar problems. Thinking that perhaps my location coordinates had reverted to something incorrect, I displayed the ASI Mount screen, clicked the Advanced box, but saw that my proper lat/long are still displayed on the Advanced screen. So the syncing with NINA has not been overwritten. And the time zone and actual time were also correct.

At this point, I am truly confused as to what is wrong or what I’m not doing properly. I came back inside and re-read the Goto Catalog Target/Co-ordinates and all its subsections and cannot find anything I might have missed or was doing improperly. But clearly I have to be doing one or more things wrong. So please, HELP!

Thanks,

Jerry

[admin]

Hi Jerry,

for the polar alignment, once you are done you can just click the 'X' to close the polar align area at the bottom - I guess you are right that a 'Done' button or similar would be a nice idea though.

As to the rest - it sounds as though there might be two problems

* Things not appearing in the list in SharpCap, or showing below horizon when they are not still indicates a problem with lat/long/time. Please check as follows:

1) Open camera and connect mount in SharpCap
2) Choose Tools->Goto Catalog Target/Co-ordinates
3) Immediately close the GOTO catalog target window
4) Choose Help->Show Log
5) Near the end of the log, SharpCap will have recorded the lat/long/time in this format - please check the values are correct. Note that the time is UTC

Code: Select all

Info    15:13:10.196225 #1  Calculating Alt/Az for catalog based on lat=51.75, long=0.75, UTC=2024-01-05T15:13:10.1957047Z 

* Problem 2 - even if the above is wrong, once SharpCap says to the mount 'GOTO RA 5h 35m 17s | Dec -5° 23′ 28″', the mount should move to point to the Orion Nebula. If it's not pointing to the right place then that suggests that the mount may need star aligning to teach it where the RA/Dec axes are. I have been unable to find documentation explaining how this might happen, but it might be worth watching a few 'AM5 Setup' videos on Youtube to see if you spot anything you have not been doing.

cheers,

Robin

[jerry1]

Sounds like a logical plan. I will try to do this in the next couple of hours or so and let you know what I find.

Thanks again,

Jerry

[jerry1]

Hi Robin,

I generated the log file as you directed and it does list my correct lat/long coordinates and the correct UTC time. So using N.I.N.A. to get those coordinates into the mount has worked properly. I also attempted to point the scope using N.I.N.A., but they all failed, most like’y because I truly don’t know the app and my only experience with it was 15 or 20 minutes yesterday to get my proper coordinates into the mount.

After that, I pointed the scope in the direction of Polaris again for a starting point and used the SharpCap GOTO catalog to point the scope at different targets. Those I used were M31, Deneb, Alioth, Mizar, and Gamma. At one point, I thought I noticed that the Dec was correct, but the R/A was reversed. However, as I tried more targets, I'm not so sure. I was using Stellarium on my cell phone as my guide, which may or may not have been the best, but I needed some reference.

At this point, I'm at a loss as to how to best proceed. I’ve watched several Youtube videos for setting up the AM5. None included the AM5 mount; most appear to be using the ASIAir. Many using SharpCap were using Sky Watcher mounts. All in all, it appears that I’m doing everything correctly, but I don’t know that for sure because I still can’t get SharpCap to point my scope correctly. I suspect the issue could still mainly be me missing something simple, but who knows

I’m beginning to consider getting the ASIAir Plus so that I can resume imaging while we’re still in winter with its great targets and seeing. I really appreciate your many attempts to help and I’m happy to test other scenarios for you, even after I convert to ASIAir, but I really don’t know how else to go at this point.

If you have any other suggestions, I’m happy to try them.

Thanks,

Jerry

[admin]

Hi Jerry,

well, at least we have eliminated some possibilities and everything left seems to be coming down to a single issue - that the mount is not pointing correctly to the co-ordinates it is being sent. I am still suspecting that the issue here is that the mount may be confused about where it is pointing to begin with, so all subsequent movements are offset from the correct position in RA.

There are two things I can think of trying

1) Use the ASI Mount app on your phone and see how that works - it may automatically perform some setup you are missing, or perhaps guide you through it. It also has the advantage of being an 'all ZWO' setup, so if it *still* doesn't work you can raise the issue with them (or the retailer you bought the mount from) and ask for more guidance. You can find the ASI Mount app here

Android : https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... n_GB&gl=US
Apple : https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/asi-mount/id1616449238

2) Try to use plate solving in SharpCap to correct any offset (presuming that is the issue).

* Make sure you have the latest SharpCap 4.1
* In plate solving settings, make sure you have a plate solving application selected (SharpCap's built in plate solver should be fine)
* Also in plate solving settings, adjust the 'Search radius for plate solve and resync' to 180 degrees. If you do not see this option then you need to update to the latest SharpCap
* Get stars in view in the camera and SharpCap connected to the ZWO mount, then press the plate solve + resync button in the mount controls or select 'Plate solve and resync' from the tools menu

This should capture an image, plate solve it, then correct the mount co-ordinates from the plate solved image. If we are lucky then GOTO movements after this succeeds should be pretty much correct, rather than way out.

Hope this helps,

Robin

[jerry1]

Hi Robin,

I downloaded and installed the AM5 app as you suggested. I was able to connect to the AM5 after I realized I needed to plug in the Hand Controller because the WiFi Access Point for the mount IS INSIDE the Hand Controller.. From the app, I was able to select and GoTo any of the celestial objects I wanted to view. As in my previous testing performed in doors, I initially faced the telescope toward Polaris (even though there was no way to polar align because I’m testing indoors while a snow storm is raging outside. Then, I started selecting various targets (M31, Regulus, Merak, Jupiter, Algol, etc.) and pressing the GoTo button on the cell phone’s screen to slew the scope to where the target is currently positioned in the sky (again, using Stellarium as a reference). So I was quite happy that I can at least use the app to properly point my scope once I've performed a polar alignment (presuming, of course, that it’s not cloudy… not snowing… and that I’m actually outside…)

Elated from the foregoing, I then remotely logged into the mini computer I’ve installed on the scope from my laptop using WiFi, fired up SharpCap (I’ve been using v4.1 all along), and proceeded to select targets from its celestial database, and guess what? YOU WERE RIGHT! SharpCap is now able to point the scope at the actual object I select from the database. Well done, Robin! Solving this kind of problem without having the problematic mount is difficult. As an engineer, I sometimes find myself in a similar situation trying to solve a problem on an unfamiliar device with no available manual or schematic diagram and it's an extremely frustrating and arduous way to solve a problem. So BRAVO!

Well, it’s just about to 22:00 my time and I’m about go to bed. But I'm going delighted that we’ve (you really) have solved these issues and I should be “good to go” when I next get a clear evening. Please consider adding a “Done” button, or some such, to the alignment procedure – it’ll at least help the new SharpCap user to get through the alignment process more easily. And I’m repeating my offer to you: should you find yourself attempting to help another customer having problems with an AM5 mount and need someone with the mount to do some testing, I’m happy to help out if I can.

Thanks again for all your help! I will post one more time when the weather permits and I’m able to use SharpCap with the AM5 in earnest to confirm that things are working as they should, but I do believe you’ve resolved the issues I reported or developed successful work-arounds.

Thanks much!

Jerry