Having trouble plate solving

[OregonSky]

I've been struggling badly with adding Plate Solving. Many many hours and hundreds of attempts on 2 different computers.
I have installed ASTAP, originally with the H18 database and updated now to the new D50.
Sharpcap's Test of the Plate solver after installation says Successful and IF an image is on the screen in Folder Monitor Camera at the time of the Test it solves it. BUT...
Attempting the same image in Folder Monitor Camera and even blind solving ( 180* ) fails.
Attempting a live outside solve - Always fails even when target found with Sharpcap GoTo and is on the screen .

Virtually ALL my images ( new and saved from past ) solve at Astrometry.net.
I installed AllSky plate solver thinking that maybe it would run successfully. Nope.
I have re-installed ASTAP and AllSky several times. I have attempted to let the Automated setup at Allsky do its job but alas... Still a Fail.

There are so many features in Sharpcap that I do not understand but I'm trying to grasp one at a time.
I'm used Sharpcap Pro - with latest updates. I tried with Beta 4.1 and it runs the goto routine successfully until the plate solve function.
I'm using my Celestron 6se - with 6.3 Reducer - and Player One Uranus C Camera . I set focal length at 945mm.
I align thru CPWI / Starsense successfully.
I'm finding items just fine so I gave up on plate solving for a while as the failure and hours spent were ruining my enjoyment of my astronomy - but, I want to use Deep Sky Annotation , the Solve and Sync Mount and other features that require Plate Solving Etc.

I have attempted to Plate Solve AT the ASTAP site as well . I used an M63 Image - I enter the exact location coordinates - I have entered the other info that I have in settings screen . I tried ranges of Degrees - Star sizes - etc and all fail.
I have read that experimenting with entering incorrect focal lengths works for some. I ranged from 700 to 1150mm and none work for me.
At ASTAP Site the on screen log tells that I have adequate stars and Quads.
I find the instructions at ASTAP quite hard to navigate / understand.
I find many YouTube and CD threads about plate solving but all are with different mounts and equipment that negates their benefit to me.

I wish there was a Reddit in the " Explain it like I'm Five " forum. LOL

I have tried the solve button within Scope control and solving from the Tools - Drop down Menu.
The attempted plate solve that automatically initiates with request for Deep Sky Annotation of an image fails too.
Generally no reason is given for the Fail - Just a message that tells the time. It sometimes advises viewing the Sharpcap log to see error in the process. I see the segments with the solving request details in the log but "I" cannot see the reason for error.

I am attaching the Log from my last session. Its kind of messy as I attempted several targets too near the half moon and cancelled some before using, once I saw the image in live view.
I wonder if someone with greater understanding and knowledge would view the log and see of something in my process is setup incorrectly or .... ? Any suggestion at this point is appreciated.

Little to few chances of clear sky forecast for about 5 - 7 days but can use folder monitor camera of course.

Thank you
MIKE in OREGON

Log_2023-04-29T21_20_35-2792.log

(363.29 KiB) Downloaded 54 times

[admin]

Hi Mike,

I think the best thing to do would be for you to share a couple of saved image frames that refuse to plate solve in Astap - that will allow us to advise on what might be causing the problem. From the log I can see that the plate solve attempt seems to find plent of stars but still fails, but seeing the image (and knowing what telescope you are using so we have an idea of the field of view) would help lots.

thanks,

Robin

[OregonSky]

Thank you --

Sorry my text was so long but I tried to provide as much info as I could.
My info was buried in the 3rd paragraph :
I'm using my Celestron 6se - with 6.3 Reducer - and Player One Uranus C Camera . I set focal length at 945mm.
I align thru CPWI / Starsense successfully when outdoors.
I have been using folder monitor camera indoors.

Attaching image of M61 and NGC4536

NGC4836_128 x 4sec _8.5 minutes.jpg (445.14 KiB) Viewed 2017 times

M61 148frames_592s.jpg (392.81 KiB) Viewed 2017 times

[admin]

Hi,

I uploaded one of your images above to Astrometry.net (https://nova.astrometry.net/user_images ... #annotated), and that gives a field of view of about 29 by 16 arc minutes, which is less that you would expect for your set up if the focal length is 945mm (you would expect 39x22 arc minutes).

Given the field of view from Astrometry.Net, it seems as though your focal length is actually closer to 1300mm. A mismatch in the focal length of this size could definitely stop plate solving from working... For me, Astap refused to solve the image when I told it the field height was 0.4 degrees, but worked when I set the field height to 0.25 degrees.

Note that at this size field of view you will need the larger star database for Astap to get reliable results - I see that there are new databases available on the Astap download page - D5, D20, D50 and D80. I would suggest that you need the D50 database for reliable operation given the info on the Astap page.

cheers,

Robin

[OregonSky]

Thanks for looking into this :
Per Line 2 -- I have been using D50. I did not know and do not see option for D80. Is D80 referring to the LEDA database ?

I had a short window outside last night - I tried those settings and SADLY - About a total fail .
The ONE successful Solve of many attempts was with 20 stars ... ? after MANY attempts at higher gain - lower gain - longer and shorter exposure. My starsense Align was accurate enough that when it occurred the Sync was un noticed.

Do you think that 3446 X 1920 / 3845 / 2160 resolution is maybe the issue ?
Could setting my resolution lower be the answer ?
Lightning tonight and tomorrow but forecast is better for the weekend.
Thank you -
MIKE in OREGON

[admin]

Hi Mike,

the download for the D80 database is a little link on the Astap page, just above the picture with the green bars showing what database to use for what field of view. See https://www.hnsky.org/astap.htm and scroll down about half a page.

The high resolution might not help - maybe try 2x2 or 4x4 binning to see if that works better - it will help remove noise from the image which may help with star detection. Also worth being in 16 bit mode on the camera as 8 bit mode can make it miss faint stars.

If all else fails, just press the 'Snapshot' button and send me the saved FITS file (with no changes made to it, just the image straight off the camera) and I will investigate further. Unfortunately processed images (live stack results, JPG, etc) do not allow me to test the same situation correctly.

cheers,

Robin

[OregonSky]

Robin - Thank You for the Reply.
Thursday Night was Clear - I experimented with Binning, I have never tried it before. I read some about it but still pretty confused. I tried the 2 - 3 - and 4 settings. I did get several successful solve and sync's with 4x -and one with 3x. None with 2x.
I was a little confused as to how to deal with the binning. The images with the binning grow progressively worse as the number goes up. Many hot pixels and very granulated.

Does one just use the binning to get a sync - and then go back to 1X to image and GoTo until you need another Sync ?

I usually have almost no failed exposures. After Returning to 1x , at times I had a fairly high rate of un-stacked frames. Error Message told me - "Inadequate brightness" - yet the image looked very nice.

I tried the Annotation feature and nothing that was circled or pointed to had stars or objects in the annotated points or that could be associated with what's in the image by pattern that I could make out.

We have forecast of more nice weather in the next days.
I will read more - watch more video and see what I can learn and make happen.

Thank you for all your hard work. I had never taken an image before getting a camera in July 2022. 30+ years at the eyepiece. I'm just scraping the surface of whats in your program.
There are so many features in Sharpcap that so many of us novices don't know how to use / or sometimes even what to do with. With so many types of equipment out there, finding someone with the same set up that you can talk with is virtually impossible. Just trying one thing at a time.

[admin]

Hi,

I know there were some issues with binning not quite working as intended on PlayerOne cameras, but I thought that they were fixed in the most recent SDK updates. Unfortunately I don't have your particular camera to test with, but the increase in hot pixels does sound familiar.

I was hoping that using binning just for the plate solving (changing back after) would help, but it sounds like it hasn't really made much impact.

I think that to progress this any further I really need to see an image from the camera that is failing to solve. I would say to stick to 1x1 binning for this test.

Make sure you can see stars in the image (without needing to turn on the display stretch function). Try to plate solve button as usual. If it fails, press the 'Snapshot button' to save the current image (probably as PNG or FITS - either will do). Then please send me the image (PNG/FITS) file *and* the capturesettings file that is saved alongside it. Feel free to try this for some different settings (ie RAW8 and RAW16, different exposure).

The FITS/PNG files will be too large to upload to the forum - the usual approach people take is to use another service to upload those (dropbox/google drive/onedrive/etc) and then share them via a link and post the link to them here.

thanks,

Robin

[OregonSky]

Just a note to let you know I have not dropped out.

Coastal Clouds have been rolling in evenings leaving some odd time one hour windows.
Making some progress - trying some new things and getting better at using ASTAP site to gain information.
Time goes by Quickly when trying ranges / combinations of settings.
I will continue and report back.
Thank you -
MIKE

[OregonSky]

Some progress to report .
A friend in Mid USA sent me an image that was known to solve . I had wondered if my Images were the issue - or my equipment - or my settings -- or ....... ??
About a week ago I caught a one hour window of clear sky and I captured some images in areas with good star fields.
IC 1166 - 1230 - 4575 - 4615
NGC 6076-NED01
None would solve or sync out there live but, I was sure with my Starsense alignment that the GoTo was Close. Most were very small objects. I did not attempt to center - my only goal was to get images with good stars.
Back at the House - The FITS images solved at ASTAP almost instantly. Focal Length in Pixel Math 2 showed as 1029. The PNG files did not solve as they were but I played with Brightness on the computer images and did eventually did get a solve.
Now - Armed with a idea of how bright it needed to appear , the next night, about midnight I caught another clear sky window.
I aligned with Starsense in CPWI .
Last nights solved images at ASTAP showed 1029 mm Focal Length so I added that in Sharpcap Plate Solving Settings.
I used Sharpcaps GoTo Coordinates Feature to GoTo items - I let it run the 4.1 routine - and allowed the Plate Solve to Fail.
Then - in Live View - I run the Gain and Exposures up until I have a Bright Image - but not too bright - similar to what I saw on the home computer. I then attempt Solve and Sync. If it fails - I try a different set of gain and exposure settings until I hit a set that works. Some Solve as low as 11 seconds - 475 gain / Others at 16 Seconds - 600 length. Sometimes it takes 10 - 12 tries to find the right combination that solves .
Once it solves and Centers , I then re-adjust settings back to my normal imaging settings ( Usually 4 - 8 seconds 300 - 350 gain ) and Start a Live Stack.

Am I doing this right ? Seems cumbersome but, I'm getting better at it as I keep doing it.
I have never read of or seen video of others doing it this way.

Is there a setting for Sharpcap to send FITS files to ASTAP for Solving ?
I note that when sending files direct to ASTAP website that the FITS Files solve almost instantaneously vs the PNG files that require the same fiddling along with usually multiple adjusted attempts to solve.

Nice to make some progress though.

The friend that sent me the file to test with is an AP guy. He said he had not done Eaa / Sharpcap in about a year. He previously commented on what a easy process it was to Solve thru ASTAP / Sharpcap.
He said he would set up for Eaa and record his process for me. His attempts also failed.


Something I do note in the 4.1x beta.
In the sequence that runs in GoTo Coordinates process - - If the newly requested target is a Long RA Slew , the process moves ahead while the scope is still slewing and even attempts to Plate Solve before the Slew has stopped.

Thanks