Hi Robin, It's been a while since I've posted to the forum - hope this is the right part for this...
I'm using the latest 4.1.133140.0 64 bit on a fully patched Win11 platform and with a ZWO 1600MM camera. Solar imaging with a Lunt scope on an iOptron mount and a Gemini EAF - mount and EAF connected through ASCOM 6.6
I use the Live Planetary Stacking extensively for Solar and really like the results but I have a few problems & suggestions for you to consider please.
1. Several times if I select Half-and-Half viewing of stacked/unprocessed frames then Sharpcap immediately terminates - no error dialog or anything just the application is gone and I have to startover. Happy to help try and diagnose that if there's anything I can provide you with
2. The warning of "camera images may be underexposed" is useful but has misled me today. Rather than my frames being underexposed they had completely lost the sun due to a meridian flip while I was away from the scope. Trouble is under this condition the stacked image on the screen still looks normal so I did not realise I has lost the sun altogether. At a glance the timelapse was still working and saving frames but they were all identical stacks after the flip lost the sun. It was only the fact that the Stacking FPS had gone to zero that tipped me off that something was wrong.
Possible improvements to help with that situation :-
* be able to view the whole raw frame as well as the stacked frame (obviously I can't use the halh-and-half relaibly at present)
* be able to see the histogram for the raw frame - when adjusting potential underexposure there seems to be no way to get it back to about 80% brightness because the Display Histogram is showing the result of the stacked image
* red warning if stacking FPS drops to zero - something like "target may have been lost" perhaps
* make the warning messages show the criteria on the brightness - not sure exactly where you've set then are they <70% and >90% or so? - then it would highlight e.g. the raw frames have 0% brightness (object lost) or, say 60% brightness (i.e. need to nudge the exposure up a bit)
3. I use the Solar Colorisation and the Inverted options but have the following issues :-
* if Solar Colorization is ticked but then Live Planetary stacking dialog is closed then the raw images from the mono camera remain colorised
* inverted is grayed out unless Solar Colorisation is ticked - but why can't we have an inverted Mono image ?
4. I think if Live Planetary Stacking is opened when the Target Name is blank then all output from it gets saved to "Solar system Stack" folder. Even if you set the Target name correctly later it does not seem to pick this up until it is closed/reopened. (can't double check that as I write this as I'm still doing a timelapse)
5. I may just need to read up more of your help documents but I find it very confusing how the following options to keep the object centered interact with each other and which should be used in preference ...
a) the Region of Interst control with "Center" ticked
b) the options in Live Planetary Stacking for Stabilise to center, Track with selections area and Track with camera ROI
c) the Feature Tracking Tool (which I like in other situations because you can monitor the amount of movement which is going on)
6. Using the timelapse feature on the sun over sevaral hours can be great (I've seen a flare today from sunspot 4087) but it would be great if there were some way to review the results while the timelapse was still in progress. I use SEr format in preference so I can do this by stopping and immediately restarting the timelapse then stiching the files together later but that is a bit cumbersome. Not sure what might be simple to achieve this, perhaps close and automatically start new timelapse file every xx minutes ? That also has the advantage that if there is a crash you have not lost the entire session.
7. I've seen some slightly strange results if I change the Target Stack length downwards but do not hit Reset Stack. e.g. If I change from 2000 frames to 1000 frames then the Stack length drops down but finished at 1500 frames.
Hope these comments are useful and help generate more improvements to this great software!
Mike
Live Planetary Stacking problems/suggestions for Solar
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Re: Live Planetary Stacking problems/suggestions for Solar
Hi Mike,
thanks for the detailed feedback - it's great to have this sort of input from people who are really using the features lots. I will go through the points in the same order as above...
1. If you can crash the half-and-half pretty much repeatedly then hopefully we can take advantage of that to track down a fix. Either by giving me step-by-step instructions to break it in the same way that you are (I haven't seen this crash myself), or by using the procdump tool to create a crash dump from one of the times when it breaks for you, then sending me the crash dump to debug the problem. There are instructions for how to use ProcDump to get a crash dump here : viewtopic.php?p=45799#p45799
2. I like the idea of improving the messaging around low FPS and histogram range issues - including the histogram % level will certainly help.
Note that you can already see the raw images if you want - just tick the 'Show unprocessed frames' option (to the left of half-and-half) - that also causes the mini histogram to show the data on the raw frame from the camera rather than the stacked/processed data.
3. The Solar colorization in planetary live stacking being linked to the non stacked colorization is intentional (I think it was a request from someone, which seemed reasonable to implement). No reason not to have inverted mono I guess - I will make a note of that.
4. Currently target name changes take effect when the 'reset stack' button is pressed (or when PLS is opened as you noticed). As a first step I will see if I can make it so that target name changes take effect if you haven't saved anything yet in the stack (once you have saved files, changing the name gets a whole lot more difficult). Maybe it would be easier to have a prompt for the target if blank?
5. Let's see - they all have different purposes...
* Feature tracking - this is the only one that will move the mount to keep the target on the sensor - it can be used with other options, but if doing so, set a relatively large 'dead zone' so that feature tracking will only step in if necessary (image has reached the edge of the sensor)
* Track planet centre/lock in the ROI area will move the ROI to try to keep a planet (single object entirely in view) either centered or in the same position - no need to use these in planetary stacking as the options in the stabilization tab will handle these situations too, but these options are useful for more traditional imaging
* Planet/Disk stabilization - rather than using ROI movements, this just shifts the image to keep the planet central - again not needed with planetary live stacking
* Stabilize to center in planetary live stacking - if *checked* then the effects on the raw frames before stacking are the equivalent of planet/disk stabilization. If *unchecked* then the frames are stabilized, but the planet is kept in a constant position (may not be center). The latter is intended for (for instance) Jupiter off-center with moons on one side.
* Track planet with SharpCap selection area - this is intended for use when using a larger sensor camera at full (or high) resolution with the planet only taking up a small area of the image. You can turn on the SharpCap selection rectangle from the toolbar, then check 'stack selection area only', then check this option - SharpCap will then be stacking only within the red rectangular selection box, and will move that box around to track the planet. To be honest, using camera ROI (next point) is probably better
* Track planet with camera ROI - enable this when using the camera in ROI mode, and Planetary Live Stacking will move the ROI around to track the planet - this is the preferred equivalent of the Track Planet options in the main ROI selection area when using PLS.
6. Tricky one - other tools cannot access the main timelapse file while SharpCap is still writing to it. Even if I allowed that (which is possible), the SER file only gets the frame count added to it when it is finished, so most tools would see it as zero frames long while SharpCap is still writing to it. Similar limitations apply to other video file formats, but I suppose you could save the timelapse to still images (a series of PNG files) - you could look at those while the timelapse is continuing, but that adds an extra step to turn them into a video and currently rules out the 'make an animated GIF' option.
7. I've seen this too - never got around to checking it out though - will have to look.
cheers,
Robin
thanks for the detailed feedback - it's great to have this sort of input from people who are really using the features lots. I will go through the points in the same order as above...
1. If you can crash the half-and-half pretty much repeatedly then hopefully we can take advantage of that to track down a fix. Either by giving me step-by-step instructions to break it in the same way that you are (I haven't seen this crash myself), or by using the procdump tool to create a crash dump from one of the times when it breaks for you, then sending me the crash dump to debug the problem. There are instructions for how to use ProcDump to get a crash dump here : viewtopic.php?p=45799#p45799
2. I like the idea of improving the messaging around low FPS and histogram range issues - including the histogram % level will certainly help.
Note that you can already see the raw images if you want - just tick the 'Show unprocessed frames' option (to the left of half-and-half) - that also causes the mini histogram to show the data on the raw frame from the camera rather than the stacked/processed data.
3. The Solar colorization in planetary live stacking being linked to the non stacked colorization is intentional (I think it was a request from someone, which seemed reasonable to implement). No reason not to have inverted mono I guess - I will make a note of that.
4. Currently target name changes take effect when the 'reset stack' button is pressed (or when PLS is opened as you noticed). As a first step I will see if I can make it so that target name changes take effect if you haven't saved anything yet in the stack (once you have saved files, changing the name gets a whole lot more difficult). Maybe it would be easier to have a prompt for the target if blank?
5. Let's see - they all have different purposes...
* Feature tracking - this is the only one that will move the mount to keep the target on the sensor - it can be used with other options, but if doing so, set a relatively large 'dead zone' so that feature tracking will only step in if necessary (image has reached the edge of the sensor)
* Track planet centre/lock in the ROI area will move the ROI to try to keep a planet (single object entirely in view) either centered or in the same position - no need to use these in planetary stacking as the options in the stabilization tab will handle these situations too, but these options are useful for more traditional imaging
* Planet/Disk stabilization - rather than using ROI movements, this just shifts the image to keep the planet central - again not needed with planetary live stacking
* Stabilize to center in planetary live stacking - if *checked* then the effects on the raw frames before stacking are the equivalent of planet/disk stabilization. If *unchecked* then the frames are stabilized, but the planet is kept in a constant position (may not be center). The latter is intended for (for instance) Jupiter off-center with moons on one side.
* Track planet with SharpCap selection area - this is intended for use when using a larger sensor camera at full (or high) resolution with the planet only taking up a small area of the image. You can turn on the SharpCap selection rectangle from the toolbar, then check 'stack selection area only', then check this option - SharpCap will then be stacking only within the red rectangular selection box, and will move that box around to track the planet. To be honest, using camera ROI (next point) is probably better
* Track planet with camera ROI - enable this when using the camera in ROI mode, and Planetary Live Stacking will move the ROI around to track the planet - this is the preferred equivalent of the Track Planet options in the main ROI selection area when using PLS.
6. Tricky one - other tools cannot access the main timelapse file while SharpCap is still writing to it. Even if I allowed that (which is possible), the SER file only gets the frame count added to it when it is finished, so most tools would see it as zero frames long while SharpCap is still writing to it. Similar limitations apply to other video file formats, but I suppose you could save the timelapse to still images (a series of PNG files) - you could look at those while the timelapse is continuing, but that adds an extra step to turn them into a video and currently rules out the 'make an animated GIF' option.
7. I've seen this too - never got around to checking it out though - will have to look.
cheers,
Robin
Re: Live Planetary Stacking problems/suggestions for Solar
Hi,
Sorry for the delay in responding - I have been away...
1. The crash is reproducible every time for me as follows :-
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/r7v3mpey ... 47dhf&dl=0
2. Thanks for the reminder about showing unprocessed frames and the fact that the histogram then shows the data from the raw frame. I can use that until you have a chance to look at building more information into the underexposed/overexposed messages
3. If you've closed the Live stacking tool with Colorization turned on is there a way to turn it off other than re-opening the Live stacking tool then ?
4. Yes, I think prompting if no target name has been selected is a good idea. I think we worked on that with the start Capture dialog and got it highlighted there if it had not been set.
5. thanks for the detailed explanation, I'll do some experimenting with the different options. I often think that the centering does not look quite right (see the example screenshot along with the Procdump files where the solar disk is definitely no centered left/right). Are you using a average centre of brightness to determine the "center" ? I find that my Solar disk often looks off center and I suspect this may be brightness variations across the disk (in this example I'm not using a flatframe)
6. I agree you can't mess around with the SER file unless you close it in the normal way to make a complete file. My use case if maybe doing a 3 hour plus time lapse of the sun you sort of want to take a look at if anything interesting has been going on and whether to continue or not. Only suggestion at present would be to stop/start the timelapse every x minutes. so if you set that to every 30 minutes say then you could easily review as you go along and afterwards it would not be too time consuming to stich the 30 minutes tielapses back together e.g in PIPP
7. I'll see if I can spot any patterns to this behaviour.
Cheers,
Mike
Sorry for the delay in responding - I have been away...
1. The crash is reproducible every time for me as follows :-
- start SharpCap
Open ZWO 1600 MM camera and then load pre-saved settings for solar work
Camera ROI (1600x1600) selected and centre box ticked
Adjust exposure to get approx 70 to 80% on the histogram
Open the Live Planetary stacking tool
Allow stack to build up to , say, 750 frames
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/r7v3mpey ... 47dhf&dl=0
2. Thanks for the reminder about showing unprocessed frames and the fact that the histogram then shows the data from the raw frame. I can use that until you have a chance to look at building more information into the underexposed/overexposed messages
3. If you've closed the Live stacking tool with Colorization turned on is there a way to turn it off other than re-opening the Live stacking tool then ?
4. Yes, I think prompting if no target name has been selected is a good idea. I think we worked on that with the start Capture dialog and got it highlighted there if it had not been set.
5. thanks for the detailed explanation, I'll do some experimenting with the different options. I often think that the centering does not look quite right (see the example screenshot along with the Procdump files where the solar disk is definitely no centered left/right). Are you using a average centre of brightness to determine the "center" ? I find that my Solar disk often looks off center and I suspect this may be brightness variations across the disk (in this example I'm not using a flatframe)
6. I agree you can't mess around with the SER file unless you close it in the normal way to make a complete file. My use case if maybe doing a 3 hour plus time lapse of the sun you sort of want to take a look at if anything interesting has been going on and whether to continue or not. Only suggestion at present would be to stop/start the timelapse every x minutes. so if you set that to every 30 minutes say then you could easily review as you go along and afterwards it would not be too time consuming to stich the 30 minutes tielapses back together e.g in PIPP
7. I'll see if I can spot any patterns to this behaviour.
Cheers,
Mike
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Re: Live Planetary Stacking problems/suggestions for Solar
Hi Mike,
thanks for the detailed info on the crash (good choice of camera too - I have one here!). I will try to repro that and see if I can work out what is going on. If I can't repro it then the crash dumps should help.
I made some improvements in the last update based on your previous feedback, including the target name not being 'set' until you save the first image from a stack (rather than when the stack starts). I also tried to improve the messaging about under/over exposed and a couple of other tweaks.
You can turn off the colorization (when you are out of planetary stacking) by changing the selection in the 'FX' (display effects) dropdown in the top toolbar - it will be on 'Solar Colorization', set that to 'None'.
I will have to consider carefully how a 'preview' of the timelapse could be done - it would be a nice feature, but needs to not interfere with the current way things work.
cheers,
Robin
thanks for the detailed info on the crash (good choice of camera too - I have one here!). I will try to repro that and see if I can work out what is going on. If I can't repro it then the crash dumps should help.
I made some improvements in the last update based on your previous feedback, including the target name not being 'set' until you save the first image from a stack (rather than when the stack starts). I also tried to improve the messaging about under/over exposed and a couple of other tweaks.
You can turn off the colorization (when you are out of planetary stacking) by changing the selection in the 'FX' (display effects) dropdown in the top toolbar - it will be on 'Solar Colorization', set that to 'None'.
I will have to consider carefully how a 'preview' of the timelapse could be done - it would be a nice feature, but needs to not interfere with the current way things work.
cheers,
Robin
Re: Live Planetary Stacking problems/suggestions for Solar
Further info on point 7.
Adjusting the number of frames (either by the slider or typing in the box) in livestacking upwards always results in the correct number of frames
Adjusting the stack length downwards starts to decrease the number of frames but it will stop at 1.5 times the number requested
i.e. 50 selected gives 75
100 selected gives 150 etc.
Mike.
Adjusting the number of frames (either by the slider or typing in the box) in livestacking upwards always results in the correct number of frames
Adjusting the stack length downwards starts to decrease the number of frames but it will stop at 1.5 times the number requested
i.e. 50 selected gives 75
100 selected gives 150 etc.
- 2025-05-21 14_43_30-SharpCap Pro (v4.1.13314, 64 bit) - ZWO ASI1600MM Pro (051D920511080900, via USB.png (7.78 KiB) Viewed 2065 times
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Re: Live Planetary Stacking problems/suggestions for Solar
Hi Mike,
if you try the latest version, that one should be fixed - I looked into it and it turned out to be a rounding error in the way the new length was calculated after each update. Actually the 'number of frames' (or, at least, equivalent number of frames) in the stack was updating correctly, but the displayed number was miscalculted.
cheers,
Robin
if you try the latest version, that one should be fixed - I looked into it and it turned out to be a rounding error in the way the new length was calculated after each update. Actually the 'number of frames' (or, at least, equivalent number of frames) in the stack was updating correctly, but the displayed number was miscalculted.
cheers,
Robin
Re: Live Planetary Stacking problems/suggestions for Solar
Hi Robin,
I've finally had a chance to try version 4.1.13343 during some cloud gaps this morning.
1. The crash on selecting Half-and-Half seems to be fixed - at least I've not been able to reproduce it so far
3. One very minor point about the Solar Colorization. You are right that after closing the Live Planetary stacking dialog with Colorization on then the FX drop down will say Solar Colorization. But while the Live Stacking dialog is open the FX box stays empty. Would it not be a bit clearer if the FX box was updated at the same time as the option is turned on/off in the Live Stacking dialog ?
6. The option to view SER file time lapses in SER player while still recording works perfectly and is exactly what I wanted - thank you!
7. Reducing the target stack length still seems to have some problems, tried it just now , set target from 500 down to 400 but the Stack length number did not change
Cheers,
Mike
I've finally had a chance to try version 4.1.13343 during some cloud gaps this morning.
1. The crash on selecting Half-and-Half seems to be fixed - at least I've not been able to reproduce it so far
3. One very minor point about the Solar Colorization. You are right that after closing the Live Planetary stacking dialog with Colorization on then the FX drop down will say Solar Colorization. But while the Live Stacking dialog is open the FX box stays empty. Would it not be a bit clearer if the FX box was updated at the same time as the option is turned on/off in the Live Stacking dialog ?
6. The option to view SER file time lapses in SER player while still recording works perfectly and is exactly what I wanted - thank you!
7. Reducing the target stack length still seems to have some problems, tried it just now , set target from 500 down to 400 but the Stack length number did not change
Cheers,
Mike
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Re: Live Planetary Stacking problems/suggestions for Solar
Hi Mike,
yes, I did get the bug sorted, so that shouldn't happen any more. I will have another look at the frame count number when decreasing the length - the important thing to note is that the decrease in length actually happens, even if the number doesn't go down.
I'm not going to be able to change the 'FX' to say colorization, because that is linked to applying a filter of one sort or another just before display. The way that live stacking works isn't compatible with the normal solar colorization filter, so live stacking has its own version of that feature.
cheers,
Robin
yes, I did get the bug sorted, so that shouldn't happen any more. I will have another look at the frame count number when decreasing the length - the important thing to note is that the decrease in length actually happens, even if the number doesn't go down.
I'm not going to be able to change the 'FX' to say colorization, because that is linked to applying a filter of one sort or another just before display. The way that live stacking works isn't compatible with the normal solar colorization filter, so live stacking has its own version of that feature.
cheers,
Robin