USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Discussion of using SharpCap for Deep Sky Imaging
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Desbarry
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USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Post by Desbarry »

Hi. I got a new laptop an ACER I5 10th gen with 8gb ram and a 256gb SSD. Hoping I would get more speed. I Installed ASCOM/EQMOD/Cartes Du Ceil, ALtair Capture, ASCOM drivers for all my cameras 178mm, AA183V2 and my new ZWO 533. I have refresh issues with my POlemaster camera, my guiding kept losing the selected star(not enough snr) and when I did a Smart Histogram brain measurement of the sky, it said "waiting for image to settle" It took ages and I eventually gave up. Also Sharpcap stopped the exposure with about a minute before it was supposed to.

Someone suggested its USB3. Change all your cables to usb2 It was -5C last night. My old celeron 4gb ram laptop didnt have refresh issues with Polemaster or looping through PHd2 was real time not delayed that I was getting last night. Was it the cold or is there anyway I can diagnose these "refresh" issues. Thanks very much Derek
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Re: USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Post by admin »

Hi,

best bet is to plug everything into the new laptop during the day and see if you can get the cameras running reliably one at a time (main camera first, then guiding). If you get that working then check them all running together.

If one camera fails to run reliably then it's worth trying things like different cables/USB2 cables/different settings to start trying to work out why.

cheers,

Robin
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turfpit
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Re: USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Post by turfpit »

Derek

You could try this:
  • For the new machine, connect all your USB devices.
  • Post your image like my example below.
  • Repeat for the old machine
Read all of viewtopic.php?f=18&t=349&p=1556#p1556

At a guess, your old machine had multiple USB host controllers and your new machine has a single USB host controller - we will see.

Dave

USBTreeView.JPG
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Desbarry
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Re: USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Post by Desbarry »

Yes Robin I intend to do this, just ordered 2 usb 2 cables to try if all else fails, thanks.
Desbarry
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Re: USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Post by Desbarry »

turfpit wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:45 pm Derek

You could try this:
  • For the new machine, connect all your USB devices.
  • Post your image like my example below.
  • Repeat for the old machine
Read all of viewtopic.php?f=18&t=349&p=1556#p1556

At a guess, your old machine had multiple USB host controllers and your new machine has a single USB host controller - we will see.

Dave


USBTreeView.JPG
Thanks Dave, I will report back when I test the cameras later this week when I take delivery of 2 usb2 cables I have ordered.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Cheers Derek
Desbarry
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Re: USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Post by Desbarry »

Hi Dave, I have attached the usb tree when I connect 3 devices to the new laptop 178 guide camera, main zwo 533 and either polemaster or the mount. Obviously I disconnect the polemaster when polar aligned as it frees up a usb port to connect the main camera. I disabled the power option usb that you mentioned. I also changed to 2 usb 2 cables for both cameras and their is a sort of fix for the poelmaster by would you believe a video or audio file in windows media player and putting on repeat and minimising it lol
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turfpit
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Re: USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Post by turfpit »

Derek

I have had to do some digging around on this. I came across https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 6d838808c7 which demonstrates the type of problem that could be lurking with your USB 3.1 controller.

Note also that in the USBtreeView right hand pane under Summary there is a Demanded Current entry. This is a new addition to the latest 3.5 version of USBtreeView. Try this with different USB devices and see what current is demanded.

Note that your USB architecture is a single host controller. USB 2.0 ports provide up to 500mA of power, USB 3.0 ports provide up to 900mA of power. With USB 3.1 there is Gen1 (5Gbps) and Gen2 (10Gbps) we don't know which you have. Charging ports can deliver up to 1500mA https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/ ... 010%20Gbps.

In https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-ca ... amera.html the ZWO ASI 533MC Pro is described as having camera power consumption as 650mA @ 5V and cooler power consumption 3A max @ 12V.

Question - are you running the ASI533 with an external power supply?
Question - do you run the ASI533 uncooled or cooled?
Question - did you ever use the ASI533 on the old laptop and if so did everything run OK?

I would suggest running USB2 devices with a USB2 cable and USB3 devices with a USB3 cable (based on hard won knowledge in commercial environments where the results paid my mortgage - or not).

I did a lot of support work on the Altair forum when the 183C & M cameras came out. All the 'problems' were due to either using old hubs with later USB3, bad mixing of cable (USB bus abuse) or changing to newer laptops which meant the USB architectures went from multi-host to single host controllers (your scenario) and running out of power on the bus.

I would surmise that the single host USB controller will be at the heart of your problems. To get to the bottom of your issues needs a systematic look at the problem. By this I mean try the following steps using all direct connections to ports (no hubs or other gizmos):
  • Start off with only the PoleMaster connected (use the cable that came with it) and test to see if it works.
  • Then swap out the Polemaster for the mount.
  • Then introduce the 178M (use the cable that came with the camera, it should be USB3)and get guiding going. Check if guiding works as per the old laptop
  • Then introduce the ASI533 (use the cable that came with the camera) and test both the operation of this camera and guiding.
By making incremental changes you should be able to find the 'tipping point'.

A PSU for the ASI533 is only going to set you back ~£20 and will be a good investment (the camera was ~£900).

Report back on your testing and we will see what happened.

In the meantime, some light cloudy nights reading:

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDis ... able-guide

https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/ ... 010%20Gbps

Dave
Desbarry
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Re: USB issues? New laptop Brain function acting weirdly.

Post by Desbarry »

David, many thanks for your detailed answers. The 533 was never run with the old laptop. I got a Lynx astro certified outside medical grade psu from FLO and it works great. I always use it and cool the camera. I disabled the usb power option but I actually power the laptop from mains. I seem to have fixed the pole master problem as there doesn't seem to be any lag when I tested it last week in the house. I also bought Lindy usb 2 cables from FLO and tried them indoors, I wasn't getting any lag on PHD2 loop through although I need to test it at night with stars to see if it starts loosing the guide star again.

I haven't had a chance to get out recently due to family commitments but the run through test I did in the house seemed to go ok. Will report back any issues when I next get out.

All the best Derek
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