No Reliable GOTO after platesolve and sync with SynsScan App
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No Reliable GOTO after platesolve and sync with SynsScan App
Hi Robin
This is the bug I mentioned in the thread on Synscann and Autoguide´ thread. Sometimes, when I do a platesolve and sync, it does not move the mount. I need to do a GOTO on the Synscan App. Not normally a big problem, except Im trying to use the sequencer to automatically recenter my image every minute. But it seems I cant rely on the SC plate solve and sync command to consistently move the mount. Note - this happens whether or not I am using the sequencer.
Attached is a log that shows the platesove and sync I attempted about 20 minutes ago, that did not slew, and then another one I just did that did move the mount, albeit not centering the image. When I did the GOTO on the Synscann App, it did center the image (M33)
ny advice appreciated
Cheers
Mike
This is the bug I mentioned in the thread on Synscann and Autoguide´ thread. Sometimes, when I do a platesolve and sync, it does not move the mount. I need to do a GOTO on the Synscan App. Not normally a big problem, except Im trying to use the sequencer to automatically recenter my image every minute. But it seems I cant rely on the SC plate solve and sync command to consistently move the mount. Note - this happens whether or not I am using the sequencer.
Attached is a log that shows the platesove and sync I attempted about 20 minutes ago, that did not slew, and then another one I just did that did move the mount, albeit not centering the image. When I did the GOTO on the Synscann App, it did center the image (M33)
ny advice appreciated
Cheers
Mike
Last edited by MikeHuerto on Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Bortle 5
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
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Re: No GOTO after platesolve and sync
Hi Mike,
thanks for sharing the log - it all seems to go well right up to the last step
Look at the last 3 lines -The mount has synchronized to the computed position and SharpCap asks for a GOTO to the target at RA=01:35:29,Dec=+30:46:18 - however it doesn't seem to happen... The mount just moves a couple of arc seconds
The thing I am wondering here is if the ASCOM driver for your mount is deliberately ignoring the slew command because the distance that needs to be moved is very small (about 0.02 degrees in this case). Given the text in the log I can be sure that the command was sent to slew the mount and didn't produce an error, but It's impossible to tell what the ASCOM driver does in response.
Is it possible that these symptoms only occur when the distance to be moved is small?
cheers,
Robin
thanks for sharing the log - it all seems to go well right up to the last step
Code: Select all
Info 21:40:18.483226 #1 Mount reports JNOW, converting results position from RA=01:34:15,Dec=+30:38:33 (J2000)
Info 21:40:18.509213 #1 Conversion result is RA=01:35:29,Dec=+30:45:20 (JNOW)
Info 21:40:18.509213 #1 Field solved to RA=01:35:29,Dec=+30:45:20, field Size {Width=0.7380466, Height=0.5029266}
Debug 21:40:18.510169 #1 Notification (Status=OK): Plate solve succeeded, position found to be RA=01:35:29,Dec=+30:45:20 (JNOW, offset of 0.02 de
Info 21:40:19.521852 #1 Before Sync mount is at RA=01:35:29,Dec=+30:46:18
Info 21:40:19.554763 #1 Performing Alt/Az Sync to 1.59160737342808, 30.755732068083
Info 21:40:19.554763 #1 Site Info: 0m, 39.365894 (N/S), -0.605397999999998 (E/W)
Info 21:40:19.555748 #1 Resolved to Alt/Az : 72.098628344279, 112.825120625976
Info 21:40:19.610752 #1 Mount position before SyncToAltAz : 72.1159217201365, 112.788032390008
Info 21:40:20.694887 #1 Mount position after SyncToAltAz : 72.1019055869539, 112.832179661347
Info 21:40:21.709923 #1 After Sync mount is at RA=01:35:32,Dec=+30:45:09
Info 21:40:21.709923 #1 Frame center calculated at RA=01:34:17,Dec=+30:38:33 (J2000)
Info 21:40:21.734857 #1 Frame center converted to JNOW : RA=01:35:31,Dec=+30:45:20
Info 21:40:21.734857 #1 Plate solve info with center at RA=01:35:31,Dec=+30:45:20 recorded against mount position RA=01:35:32,Dec=+30:45:09
Debug 21:40:21.734857 #1 Notification (Status=OK): Mount synced to RA=01:35:29,Dec=+30:45:20, re-centering on target at RA=01:35:29,Dec=+30:46:18
Info 21:40:22.749929 #1 Before Slew mount is at RA=01:35:32,Dec=+30:45:09
Info 21:40:23.768660 #1 After Slew mount is at RA=01:35:33,Dec=+30:45:11
The thing I am wondering here is if the ASCOM driver for your mount is deliberately ignoring the slew command because the distance that needs to be moved is very small (about 0.02 degrees in this case). Given the text in the log I can be sure that the command was sent to slew the mount and didn't produce an error, but It's impossible to tell what the ASCOM driver does in response.
Is it possible that these symptoms only occur when the distance to be moved is small?
cheers,
Robin
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Re: No GOTO after platesolve and sync
Hi Robin
My experience is that the problem occurs even with bigger distances. AND when it doesnt slew, I can always get it to slew by doing a GOTO from the synscan control panel. But yes, overall my gut feeling is that the Synscan perhaps has some kind of filter for instructions from external programs - perhaps similar to the ignore reverse movement commands for pulse guiding.
That said, I just ran a 13 minute sequence, where everything seemed to behave- even though distances were small.. Ive attached the log.
Also attached is a section from the ASCOM synscan driver log for the same period. Ill see if i can fish out the corresponding logs for the previous two SC logs i sent you
Best
Mike
My experience is that the problem occurs even with bigger distances. AND when it doesnt slew, I can always get it to slew by doing a GOTO from the synscan control panel. But yes, overall my gut feeling is that the Synscan perhaps has some kind of filter for instructions from external programs - perhaps similar to the ignore reverse movement commands for pulse guiding.
That said, I just ran a 13 minute sequence, where everything seemed to behave- even though distances were small.. Ive attached the log.
Also attached is a section from the ASCOM synscan driver log for the same period. Ill see if i can fish out the corresponding logs for the previous two SC logs i sent you
Best
Mike
- Attachments
-
- ASCOM.SynScan App Driver.1915.042800-EDIT for sequencer.txt
- (910.83 KiB) Downloaded 34 times
Last edited by MikeHuerto on Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
Bortle 5
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
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Re: No GOTO after platesolve and sync
Here´s the ASCOM log for the noGOTO event earlier tonight
Bortle 5
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
Re: No GOTO after platesolve and sync
Hi.....What i would like to know is how to access the log file shown in this thread, as it contains a lot of useful info.
My plate solve/sync works, but is off-center by 5' in RA. However my polar alignment was improved recently with the SC tool, (was 4' now 30") so this might have improved the centering - i dont know yet. Waiting for a clear sky!!
- thanks for the discussion topic, i hope the difficulty is resolved. Ive not tried re-centering a small step, will try this.
Tim
(England)
SC V4.0.8218, All Sky Plate Solver (ASPS), EQ8 via SynScan Direct Mode, EQMOD/EQASCOM set to JNOW
My plate solve/sync works, but is off-center by 5' in RA. However my polar alignment was improved recently with the SC tool, (was 4' now 30") so this might have improved the centering - i dont know yet. Waiting for a clear sky!!
- thanks for the discussion topic, i hope the difficulty is resolved. Ive not tried re-centering a small step, will try this.
Tim
(England)
SC V4.0.8218, All Sky Plate Solver (ASPS), EQ8 via SynScan Direct Mode, EQMOD/EQASCOM set to JNOW
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Re: No GOTO after platesolve and sync
Hi Mike,
it's odd - those ASCOM logs don't look like they represent SharpCap talking to the mount. For one thing once you filter out all the requests for updates on latitude, altitude, etc, there is nothing left - no requests to sync or slew the mount. Secondly, while there are requests for Latitude, Altitude and Azimuth repeatedly, SharpCap would also ask for RA and Dec about 2x per second and that's not there, it would also ask for longitude along with latitude and that's missing too. Did you have a second ASCOM application open and talking to the mount (maybe a planetarium app?) I wonder if the log is from that?
cheers,
Robin
it's odd - those ASCOM logs don't look like they represent SharpCap talking to the mount. For one thing once you filter out all the requests for updates on latitude, altitude, etc, there is nothing left - no requests to sync or slew the mount. Secondly, while there are requests for Latitude, Altitude and Azimuth repeatedly, SharpCap would also ask for RA and Dec about 2x per second and that's not there, it would also ask for longitude along with latitude and that's missing too. Did you have a second ASCOM application open and talking to the mount (maybe a planetarium app?) I wonder if the log is from that?
cheers,
Robin
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Re: No reliable GOTO after SC platesolve and sync with Synscan App
Hi Robin
I'm pretty certain, I had just had the SynnScann App and SharpCap open (though it was late, so who knows?) I do use Carte de Ciel, but I'm pretty certain that I didn't open it last night. I was just using the SynnScann App to locate and GOTO M33 (to test a sequencer script which repeats platesolve and live stack 20 times before saving the final live stack)
I assume that the data in the ASCOM log is the SynnScann app communicating with the mount. The Synscan Apps is an alignment and tracking software.
That said, I just checked the ASCOM log folder and it contains two logs for the that day. Its possible I had two copies of the Synscann App open at the same time. This can happen when I double click on the app sometimes.
EDIT: 11-16-21 - 10: 42 pm. I just did a few quick tests tonight. Restarted computer, and made sure there was only the SC and Synscan app open. Only one log. Still having issues with GOTO with offsets of 1.12 and 0.8, though it did just Plate solve and move with an offset of 2.61 to M1
EDIT 11:15 pm I just noticed that it started a second ASCOM log at 11.03 pm. This coincided with starting the sequencer script for the first time and occurred despite only have one Synscan App and SC running. 1st line says, initializing telescope. The first log is still running. Good news is though. It appears to be syncing and gotoing while running the sequencer (as it did last night). I ran the sequencer script three more time, but this did not trigger a new ASCOM log to start?
EDIT11-17-21 - BOTTOM LINE. As I I watched the screen running through the sequencer, I could see the SC GOTO commands hitting the SynsScan App each time. Bottom line, I think the SC GOTO command always his the Synscan App, but does not always move the mount. I cant seem to determine a lower limit or other reason for this. But bottom line, the problem appears to be with the Synscann App not SC. I've edited the thread title to reflect this. Platesolve and sync is working well enough with the SC sequencer to keep the image centered for 20 minutes. -
FINAL EDIT!! Thinking about it some more, some of the behavior, I see could be explained mechanically, due to backlash. This is a pretty large Dobson mount, and the mount is driven by some pretty large cogs and gears. So, it probably depends how far the large cog has to move to move the mount. If its close to the point where it can move the mount, it will move it on very small offsets. If the cog has further to rotate before it moves the mount it will require a larger offset over and above the backlash of the drive system. So the minimum offset required to move the mount will vary - depending on were the cogs are. Bottom line, its probably a mount and/Synscan app issue not a SC issue. The Synscann App has a backlash adjustment setting, and I need to see if the worm drive and moon cog can be adjusted. Perhaps this might improve response of the mount. More later
Thanks for your help Robin.
Mike
I'm pretty certain, I had just had the SynnScann App and SharpCap open (though it was late, so who knows?) I do use Carte de Ciel, but I'm pretty certain that I didn't open it last night. I was just using the SynnScann App to locate and GOTO M33 (to test a sequencer script which repeats platesolve and live stack 20 times before saving the final live stack)
I assume that the data in the ASCOM log is the SynnScann app communicating with the mount. The Synscan Apps is an alignment and tracking software.
That said, I just checked the ASCOM log folder and it contains two logs for the that day. Its possible I had two copies of the Synscann App open at the same time. This can happen when I double click on the app sometimes.
EDIT: 11-16-21 - 10: 42 pm. I just did a few quick tests tonight. Restarted computer, and made sure there was only the SC and Synscan app open. Only one log. Still having issues with GOTO with offsets of 1.12 and 0.8, though it did just Plate solve and move with an offset of 2.61 to M1
EDIT 11:15 pm I just noticed that it started a second ASCOM log at 11.03 pm. This coincided with starting the sequencer script for the first time and occurred despite only have one Synscan App and SC running. 1st line says, initializing telescope. The first log is still running. Good news is though. It appears to be syncing and gotoing while running the sequencer (as it did last night). I ran the sequencer script three more time, but this did not trigger a new ASCOM log to start?
EDIT11-17-21 - BOTTOM LINE. As I I watched the screen running through the sequencer, I could see the SC GOTO commands hitting the SynsScan App each time. Bottom line, I think the SC GOTO command always his the Synscan App, but does not always move the mount. I cant seem to determine a lower limit or other reason for this. But bottom line, the problem appears to be with the Synscann App not SC. I've edited the thread title to reflect this. Platesolve and sync is working well enough with the SC sequencer to keep the image centered for 20 minutes. -
FINAL EDIT!! Thinking about it some more, some of the behavior, I see could be explained mechanically, due to backlash. This is a pretty large Dobson mount, and the mount is driven by some pretty large cogs and gears. So, it probably depends how far the large cog has to move to move the mount. If its close to the point where it can move the mount, it will move it on very small offsets. If the cog has further to rotate before it moves the mount it will require a larger offset over and above the backlash of the drive system. So the minimum offset required to move the mount will vary - depending on were the cogs are. Bottom line, its probably a mount and/Synscan app issue not a SC issue. The Synscann App has a backlash adjustment setting, and I need to see if the worm drive and moon cog can be adjusted. Perhaps this might improve response of the mount. More later
Thanks for your help Robin.
Mike
Last edited by MikeHuerto on Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:23 am, edited 18 times in total.
Bortle 5
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
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Re: No GOTO after platesolve and sync
TimHaymes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:50 am Hi.....What i would like to know is how to access the log file shown in this thread, as it contains a lot of useful info.
Hi Tim
When using "SynScan App Driver" ASCOM driver to connect to SynScan App, there is an option in that driver's configuration page (eg where user set IP/port) to enable logging. The log would be saved in ASCOM log's default location, which is "My Documents\ASCOM\Logs <DATE>"
I got this tip from the Skywatcher distributor in the UK. They are very responsive, though a bit slow. info@opticalvision.co.uk.
Though as Robin has indicated, Im not exactly sure what they are loggin!
Best
Mike
Bortle 5
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
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Re: No Reliable GOTO after platesolve and sync with SynsScan App
Hi Mike,
thanks for sharing your testing results - I have seen a few problems with the Synscan ASCOM driver recently. In lots of cases switching to EQMOD seems to fix the issues, but I'm not sure if EQMOD will work with a AltAz GOTO dob. Might be worth checking out!
cheers,
Robin
thanks for sharing your testing results - I have seen a few problems with the Synscan ASCOM driver recently. In lots of cases switching to EQMOD seems to fix the issues, but I'm not sure if EQMOD will work with a AltAz GOTO dob. Might be worth checking out!
cheers,
Robin
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Re: No Reliable GOTO after platesolve and sync with SynsScan App
Hi Robin
I'm at the extreme edge of my knowledge base here, but my guess is that it would only work if put the Dob on a wedge. Since the Dob currently needs to move and and track in two planes, Alt and Az, to track
There are plenty of naysayers eg: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/3508 ... -goto-dob/
That said, it easy enough to try - I could install the EQMOD software on my old PC and give it a go.- to make sure I dont pollute my current setup.
Alternatively, I was wondering how easy it would be to 'reprogram and debug' the Synscan App ASCOM driver. Is there someone/ a group out there who'd does that sort of stuff. I mean its just computer code!
Even easier - I have written to Skywatcher to see if they can update their Synscan Driver. But Im not holding my breath on this.
Best
Mike
I'm at the extreme edge of my knowledge base here, but my guess is that it would only work if put the Dob on a wedge. Since the Dob currently needs to move and and track in two planes, Alt and Az, to track
There are plenty of naysayers eg: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/3508 ... -goto-dob/
That said, it easy enough to try - I could install the EQMOD software on my old PC and give it a go.- to make sure I dont pollute my current setup.
Alternatively, I was wondering how easy it would be to 'reprogram and debug' the Synscan App ASCOM driver. Is there someone/ a group out there who'd does that sort of stuff. I mean its just computer code!
Even easier - I have written to Skywatcher to see if they can update their Synscan Driver. But Im not holding my breath on this.
Best
Mike
Bortle 5
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10
Skywatcher GOTO Synscan 14" Dobson
Skywatcher 130PDS on HEQ5
ZWOASI224MC and ASI294MCPro
Laptop = Lenovo Legion 5 FullHD 144Hz (Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA RTX2060-6GB, Windows 10