Frustrated with connection

[eoverstreet]

Windows 10
ASI1600MM-C
USB

When I first connect the camera the PREVIEW and ability to take pics was working......after a few minutes all of that stopped.

I have rebooted and though the camera connects...it does not take pictures nor does the preview work, bottom leff.

I have the pro version validly registered. Or it says it is a valld!

My renewal is coming up in December and though I have successfully used the program in the past. I seem to get this problem re ocurring.

I am using USB3 cable from the camera to Windows 10 USB 3 slot. I tried using the USB 2 slot too no change .

[eoverstreet]

It just occurred to me that is was working the last time I used it...on a permanent mount and the only thing that has changed was Sharpcap updates.

[turfpit]

eoverstreet

What happens if, using the manufacturer supplied cable, the camera is plugged directly into a USB3 slot on the PC/laptop with nothing else connected?

Dave

[turfpit]

eoverstreet

the only thing that has changed was Sharpcap updates

When was the last time this setup was working?

Can you please confirm that there have been no Windows or Antivirus updates since the date the setup was last working.

Dave

[eoverstreet]

There has been a windows update...but not antivirus software is loaded. I only use this laptop for astro photography. Not online with the exception of downloading programs like Sharpcap, Ascom, SGP and others similar.

I will try a direct connect to see if that works.

[turfpit]

eoverstreet

Windows updates can be troublesome - the latest one has been temporarily withdrawn because it has been deleting user data.

When was the last time this setup was working? There might be a clue in that.

We will see how the direct connect works out. After that, I can send you some details to collect information about your setup to post back.

Dave

[eoverstreet]

Dave.....plugging the camera directly into the laptop using USB3 (by passing power hub) does work. I will try another powered hub which is essential to my setup. Too many USB 3 devices and two few on the laptop.

I has worked in the past then stops.... I gotta figure this out!


http://www.edoverstreet.com/Observatory ... _2400.html

[turfpit]

Good news then eoverstreet. At least that eliminates the camera, cable, laptop and SharpCap.

Personally I always plug a USB3 camera directly into the laptop's USB3 port (let the less busy devices go through the hub). Why do I do this? Because I spent 30 years supporting commercial operating systems

Dave

[eoverstreet]

I wish my laptop had more than one USB3 slot.

[turfpit]

Nice setup eoverstreet, I wonder what one of those rigs costs? I like the idea of putting the fused Power Pole distribution up on the mount. One of those must be ASCOM hell.

I wish my laptop had more than one USB3 slot

Yes a problem of our time I am afraid.

Over the last year, I did substantial work in another forum debugging 'alleged' problems with big megapixel 183 sensor cameras. The problems broadly fell into 3 categories:

• Early Windows 7 machines.

• Very modern machines.

• USB abusers.

Early Windows machines
Windows 7 was released in October 2009. USB3 devices started to appear in January 2010. These early machines tended to have USB3 issues when presented with 5000x3000, RAW12 images which were 40Mb in size. I own a Lenovo W510, a $1500 laptop when new. The v0.99 Renesis USB3 chipset will not work with one of these cameras. It appears ok with a portable drive but digging deeper reveals USB2 transfer rates. The camera works fine out of the USB2 port. At this point manufacturers were playing catch up and trying to be first past the post with USB3 implementations. A significant number of problem machines tested fell into this category.

Very modern machines
These were always machines with a $1000+ price tag - i7 processor, 16Gb memory, big SSD drive. Always accompanied with the "it can't possibly be the laptop" type of comment. Sadly that is not true. Two factors emerged. The first is that in order to support the outrageous claims on battery life, manufacturers resorted to tricks like reducing power to USB ports and putting the ports to sleep if inactive. The second was the removal of multiple USB Host Controllers (in effect hubs) from motherboard USB architectures and using a single USB Host Controller. The single controller might be managing internal devices such as keyboard, mouse, Bluetooth, wireless etc as well as devices plugged in. This is described in more detail below. The same issues were found with mini-PCs, where front ports did not work correctly (even though designated as USB3) but rear ports did.

USB abusers
This type of person typically could write the 'how not to do USB' manual. Their crimes include long cables, unpowered hubs, using USB2 cables as mix and match with USB3 cables, USB extender cables. USB technology relies on adequate power and critical reflection timing between host and device. A device delay appears to the host as device gone away and hence we get the familiar device disconnected sound in Windows. Many of these issues can be addressed by using industrial strength USB gear from companies like startech.com. A 5m USB3 cable might cost $80 but if it works, well ... Active USB3 extender cables from this company come with an AC adapter. So external power is applied to the extender cable to maintain integrity of the bus signals. Hence the ability to provide reliable 5m or 10m extensions. Of course, the cost of these devices is non-trivial.

When I had the disappointing experience with an early Win 7 machine, the Lenovo W510, I tested the 183 camera with my wife's Toshiba C50 laptop which originally came with Windows 8.1. This worked without issue, the machine was dated 2014 (by BIOS) and Windows 8.1 was released April 2014. So I purchased a Toshiba C50 off eBay for £120 - one of those ex corporate jobs - i3, 500Gb and 4Gb memory (was a Windows 8.1 machine). The memory was upgraded to 8Gb by purchase of an additional 4Gb at a cost of £30. That is my main capture laptop (when using Windows) - images captured with it here https://www.astrobin.com/users/turfpit/.

The 'in-between' machines - late Windows 7 or Window 8/8.1 never had issues. It took a while for the pattern to emerge.


Using USBtreeView, the Toshiba C50 USB architecture looks like this:

Toshiba-C50-USB-architecture.JPG (58.12 KiB) Viewed 2897 times

As can be seen, there are 2x EHCI controllers (USB2) managing the internal devices and the external mouse/drives. A single XHCI controller (USB3) is also present. Thus the USB devices are managed by the 3 internal hubs. The laptop has 2x USB3 physical ports and 1x USB2 physical port.


Using USBtreeView, a very modern USB architecture from a high spec machine looks like this:

XHCI-controller.png (20.06 KiB) Viewed 2897 times

Here, all USB traffic is managed by the single XHCI controller. So, although the laptop is top of the line spec, it is USB challenged when it has to handle serious data.

A good bet for USB3 reliability would be an older laptop which originally shipped with Windows 8.1. I wouldn't want to image with a very new and expensive laptop which might get dropped, stood on in the dark, plus covered in dew or frost.

Depending on configuration, offloading guiding to a low spec machine might help but I suppose that only works for ST4 connections. If it is all ASCOM managed kit then a single box might be the only option. Keeping connections in the same ports might help mitigate 'floating Virtual COM ports'. Always connect devices in the same order. The most traffic will come from the camera, so isolate that if possible. If I had a single USB port laptop I would get something else.

Draw a schematic of the connectivity once working and if anything becomes a problem after changes then at least the change can be regressed to a known working configuration.

Robin has a very good USB Troubleshooting checklist which can be found via the forum search.

Hope this clarifies some of the potential issues.

Dave