ZWO ASI 294 Dropped Frames

idsteph
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Re: ZWO ASI 294 Dropped Frames

Post by idsteph » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:08 am

Folks

Thank you for continuing to try and help me. Some answers to questions.


The camera has been directly attached to the x3 USB Ports in turn ie not via a hub. 2 of the ports are directly attached to the Intel Motherboard, the third is attached via a Daughter board which sockets onto the mother board - the camera drops frames regardless of which USB connection is used.


I have used a USB 2.0 extender cable - no change. I have used a USB 3.0 4 port Hub on every USB port - no change.

I have attached a file showing the laptop with mouse only on the daughter USB, then Camera on the other two direct motherboard USB. I noticed when the camera is attached the tree view software shows two connections Port 18 or 17 (dependant on which USB connection I plug into) and Port 2 Generic USB Hub and further down the tree Port 1 ZWO ASI 294MC Pro Camera which is very confusing. The equivalent view on the AMD Laptop shows a simple direct connection to the AMD USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller 1.0 (Microsoft) not multiples.


In addition I have run the Microsft USB fault finder application and it reports the USB controller to be in a failed state - see attached.


Dell are bewildered. They have offered the following.


Replace the Motherboard with a brand new (not refurbished item. Replace the HDD, replace the SSD. Install a complete new Windows 10 instance. Then on a fresh unused HDD, SSD and Motherboard install Sharcap 3.1 and the ZWO drivers - test for dropped frames - if problem resolves Dell will close the case, if problem persists Dell consider the issue to be ZWO/Sharcap conflict with Intel system.
They will conduct this work next week.

If anybody has any advice before pursuing this drastic path I would be very grateful.

Thankyou and regards

Ian

P.S I got some great captures of M16 and M20 the other night on the ...... AMD Laptop !
Attachments
SharCap Forum 2.docx
SharpCap Forum 2 USB Tree images
(78.89 KiB) Downloaded 62 times

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turfpit
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Re: ZWO ASI 294 Dropped Frames

Post by turfpit » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:14 pm

Ian

Thanks for posting back all the information requested. I did quite a bit of work in the Altair forum a year ago debugging alleged USB/camera/cabling issues with their big megapixel 183 cameras.

The majority of issues were tracked down to USB cables too long, wrong cable spec, overloading the USB bus by use of hubs and lack of understanding of the resources required to transfer 40Mb frames of data between the camera and the capture machine. None of the issues were camera faults.

There was a small number of machines where the issues were not resolved. They were all laptops, always seemed to be modern, were from different mainstream manufacturers, all with high specification and had one thing in common - the USB architecture contained a single USB3 host controller (xHCI controller). Traditionally laptops have had multiple USB host controllers either EHCI or a mix of EHCI and xHCI.

This is my capture laptop, a Toshiba C50 machine (bought off eBay for £140), manufactured around 2013/14 which was Windows 8 era. It has 2x USB3 ports and 1x USB2 port. There are 3 USB controllers - 2x EHCI and 1x xHCI.
Toshiba-C50-USB-architecture.JPG
Toshiba-C50-USB-architecture.JPG (58.12 KiB) Viewed 1003 times

From the USBtreeView graphic you have sent, your new machine has a single USB host controller and experience has shown this to be likely to be the root of the problem. Your older laptop will have multiple USB controllers and that is why it works. This modern single host controller has moved the congestion from the hub onto the motherboard itself.

Not what you wanted to hear I know.

Dave

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Re: ZWO ASI 294 Dropped Frames

Post by admin » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:09 pm

Hi Ian,

when you say 'I have a USB2 extender cable' I am a little worried that you are using a USB 2 extender plus the original USB3 cable - that could start to get your to the cable length (~4m+) where USB2 becomes unreliable with these camera. Perhaps I am clutching at straws here, but if you have a basic 1.5-2m USB2.0 cable (USB-A -> USB-B) then that would be worth a try if not tried already.

Just to show that Dell/Intel isn't all bad, I have a Dell Latitude laptop (about 3 years old) that has a Core i7 processor and Intel USB3 which works fine with pretty much any camera I throw at it. Of course that's no guarantee that the modern version of said laptop will work the same :(

Dave, that USB Tree view image looks like 3 separate USB controllers (2 USB2 and 1 USB3) with separate root hubs. Two of them (the USB2) ones may be internal only, but the USB3 one has only the external d:\ drive on it - I would suggest detaching that for a 'pure' test of the camera only on the USB controller.

cheers,

Robin

idsteph
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Re: ZWO ASI 294 Dropped Frames

Post by idsteph » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:35 am

Robin

I have connected the camera using a USB 2.0 short cable that I use successfully on the StarShoot Autoguider with PHD. Sharpcap continues to drop frames throughout a capture sequence or simply in 'live view' regardless of time settings, colour space, turbo USB setting etc.

I think all we can do now is wait for Dell to conduct their suggested program. I will post again with the results from that testing.


In the meantime I have ordered a brand new Dell Inspiron Laptop with an AMD Ryzen 5.0 processor, it should be delivered next week. I intend testing that as a fresh out of the box system with only Sharpcap 3.1 and the ZWO drivers installed.


Regards

Ian

idsteph
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Re: ZWO ASI 294 Dropped Frames

Post by idsteph » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:21 am

Folks - an update

Dell replaced the MB, HDD, SSD and did a fresh install of Windows 10. The Dell Technician and I installed the ZWO Drivers and SharpCap 3.1 only and tested the 'new build'. The Camera and Software worked perfectly. Then it went horribly wrong.... the NVIDIA Graphics Control Software began crashing the computer. Dell have been unable to resolve this secondary unrelated issue and therefore I reinstalled the old SSD and HDD. This restored the LT back to a fully working condition again; except the ZWO Camera of course again drops frames in SC 3.1.

On a more rewarding note - I received my brand new AMD Inspiron from Dell, installed the ZWO Drivers and SharpCap 3.1 and everything is working perfectly. I have now started slowly reinstalling all the other software on the new AMD and to date everything is fine.

Unfortunately, the Intel LT has now been consigned to the cupboard of broken things.


Thanks to everyone who has tried to help me with this issue - I have now given up so as to concentrate on Astronomy instead of Computer Technology.


Regards

Ian - Perth WA

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Re: ZWO ASI 294 Dropped Frames

Post by turfpit » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:20 am

Ian

With the troublesome Dell, try turning off the USB Selective suspend.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1255

Please report back the outcome.

Dave

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